Comments on: Having It All: A Gender Post with Pictures http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/ Human Heliotrope Thu, 02 Feb 2012 04:44:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Pronouns as a Method to Fuck With People’s Minds « beyond the hills http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/comment-page-1/#comment-1547 Pronouns as a Method to Fuck With People’s Minds « beyond the hills Wed, 23 Jun 2010 16:06:30 +0000 http://followsthesun.com/?p=323#comment-1547 [...] the clothes of their identified gender, some in the clothes of their biological sex, and some in a mixture of both. Wewha, a famous Zuni lhamana (male body, mixed gender role). I think she wore exclusively feminine [...] [...] the clothes of their identified gender, some in the clothes of their biological sex, and some in a mixture of both. Wewha, a famous Zuni lhamana (male body, mixed gender role). I think she wore exclusively feminine [...]

]]> By: Helio http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/comment-page-1/#comment-613 Helio Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:23:13 +0000 http://followsthesun.com/?p=323#comment-613 Hi Dick, Thanks for commenting! One absolutely CAN be 100% masculine and appreciate both male and female bodies. This post was about those people who don't want to be 100% masculine or feminine - or who, perhaps, want to be not 50% of each, but 100% of each. The idea I'm getting at is that one's masculinity and one's femininity should not have to have a causal relationship with each other. Should a person want to have more of both, there's no reason they ought not be able to. That said, not everybody wants to and that is totally fine. Who you want to be and who you want to be with don't have to have a causal relationship either. Hi Dick,
Thanks for commenting! One absolutely CAN be 100% masculine and appreciate both male and female bodies. This post was about those people who don’t want to be 100% masculine or feminine – or who, perhaps, want to be not 50% of each, but 100% of each. The idea I’m getting at is that one’s masculinity and one’s femininity should not have to have a causal relationship with each other. Should a person want to have more of both, there’s no reason they ought not be able to. That said, not everybody wants to and that is totally fine. Who you want to be and who you want to be with don’t have to have a causal relationship either.

]]> By: Dick http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/comment-page-1/#comment-609 Dick Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:51:37 +0000 http://followsthesun.com/?p=323#comment-609 You guys are getting a little over my head. Why can't someone be 100% masculine and still be able to appreciate both the male and female bodies? The idea of being 50% one or the other doesn't work for me. You guys are getting a little over my head. Why can’t someone be 100% masculine and still be able to appreciate both the male and female bodies? The idea of being 50% one or the other doesn’t work for me.

]]> By: Helio http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/comment-page-1/#comment-501 Helio Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:00:17 +0000 http://followsthesun.com/?p=323#comment-501 Madam Harkonnen - That's so wonderful to hear! Thank you for reading, and I'm glad you enjoyed! May I ask what particularly you find interesting about it? I do want to keep my content quality up..... Madam Harkonnen – That’s so wonderful to hear! Thank you for reading, and I’m glad you enjoyed! May I ask what particularly you find interesting about it? I do want to keep my content quality up…..

]]> By: Madam Harkonnen http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/comment-page-1/#comment-485 Madam Harkonnen Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:35:40 +0000 http://followsthesun.com/?p=323#comment-485 I've read your entry here so many times since I came across it - thank you, it's wonderful :) I’ve read your entry here so many times since I came across it – thank you, it’s wonderful :)

]]> By: Helio http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/comment-page-1/#comment-354 Helio Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:39:16 +0000 http://followsthesun.com/?p=323#comment-354 Thinglet! I have been meaning to contact you for ages. SUCH things I must relate to you, such stories. Thanks for the heads-up on "Orlando!" I will most certainly check it out, although I must admit I never actually finished the story. I got a bit bogged down around the part where the Thames froze. I see what you're saying about unshaved legs in stilletos. It's an odd thing... I think I'd go for it more if said legs were attached to a primarily male-bodied person, rather than to a primarily female-bodied person. This is a gut reaction, and I'm not sure what it says ... I fought with myself for years over my own decision to shave semi-regularly, but what I came to, in the end, is that I like the way it feels, and I like the way it looks, and I was therefore mostly doing it for myself, so it was ok. But I worried I was somehow I bad feminist for liking the way my smooth calves felt against each other, and I too have been trying to make myself entirely comfortable with whatever other female-bodied types choose to do about their body hair. It reminds me of a male friend of mine, who took the opposite approach. Because he did not like body hair on the women he was attracted to but also did not want to hold them to a double standard, for years he shaved the majority of his own body. I find it admirable, but wonder if perhaps some of this wasn't just because he also liked the feel of sheets on his smooth skin. Being tough and interesting about gender shouldn't ever stop us from liking what we like, you know? And it likewise shouldn't force us to try to like what we don't. Thinglet!
I have been meaning to contact you for ages. SUCH things I must relate to you, such stories.
Thanks for the heads-up on “Orlando!” I will most certainly check it out, although I must admit I never actually finished the story. I got a bit bogged down around the part where the Thames froze.
I see what you’re saying about unshaved legs in stilletos. It’s an odd thing… I think I’d go for it more if said legs were attached to a primarily male-bodied person, rather than to a primarily female-bodied person. This is a gut reaction, and I’m not sure what it says … I fought with myself for years over my own decision to shave semi-regularly, but what I came to, in the end, is that I like the way it feels, and I like the way it looks, and I was therefore mostly doing it for myself, so it was ok. But I worried I was somehow I bad feminist for liking the way my smooth calves felt against each other, and I too have been trying to make myself entirely comfortable with whatever other female-bodied types choose to do about their body hair.
It reminds me of a male friend of mine, who took the opposite approach. Because he did not like body hair on the women he was attracted to but also did not want to hold them to a double standard, for years he shaved the majority of his own body. I find it admirable, but wonder if perhaps some of this wasn’t just because he also liked the feel of sheets on his smooth skin.
Being tough and interesting about gender shouldn’t ever stop us from liking what we like, you know? And it likewise shouldn’t force us to try to like what we don’t.

]]> By: thinglet http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/comment-page-1/#comment-353 thinglet Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:17:23 +0000 http://followsthesun.com/?p=323#comment-353 Ah, Tilda Swinton. One of the better things my highschool ex-gf introduced me to. And since the topic is gender - Tilda was in a movie version of Orlando (early 90s vintage, so you'd have to look for it on VHS I imagine) which showcases her androgyny to great effect. So many thoughts on this subject, on naked bodies that are decidedly masculine AND feminine, on body language during sex, on why I want to get over my aversion to the sight of unshaved legs in stiletto shoes (adding gendered traits doesn't seem to be working in that instance. But i want it to!). Ah, Tilda Swinton. One of the better things my highschool ex-gf introduced me to. And since the topic is gender – Tilda was in a movie version of Orlando (early 90s vintage, so you’d have to look for it on VHS I imagine) which showcases her androgyny to great effect.

So many thoughts on this subject, on naked bodies that are decidedly masculine AND feminine, on body language during sex, on why I want to get over my aversion to the sight of unshaved legs in stiletto shoes (adding gendered traits doesn’t seem to be working in that instance. But i want it to!).

]]> By: Helio http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/comment-page-1/#comment-350 Helio Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:52:45 +0000 http://followsthesun.com/?p=323#comment-350 May, I absolutely agree, many of the behavioral signals that society attributes to Masculinity and Femininity are constrictive and seemingly arbitrary. They come, of course, from generalizations based on the roles men and women have played in society for a very long time, but they really don't leave much room to define oneself outside of gender roles. I think it's really important to decouple things like "small" and "quiet" and "shy" from Femininity, and things like "large," "loud," and "strong" from masculinity. The question is, what's left? If we take away the markers that clothing gives us (too obvious, too showy, too difficult to pair up with sex and nudity), and we take away the markers that society gives us (too restrictive, too out-of-date), what are we left with? What becomes the measure of a man? What remains within the woman's realm? May,
I absolutely agree, many of the behavioral signals that society attributes to Masculinity and Femininity are constrictive and seemingly arbitrary. They come, of course, from generalizations based on the roles men and women have played in society for a very long time, but they really don’t leave much room to define oneself outside of gender roles. I think it’s really important to decouple things like “small” and “quiet” and “shy” from Femininity, and things like “large,” “loud,” and “strong” from masculinity. The question is, what’s left? If we take away the markers that clothing gives us (too obvious, too showy, too difficult to pair up with sex and nudity), and we take away the markers that society gives us (too restrictive, too out-of-date), what are we left with? What becomes the measure of a man? What remains within the woman’s realm?

]]> By: maymay http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/comment-page-1/#comment-349 maymay Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:42:37 +0000 http://followsthesun.com/?p=323#comment-349 <blockquote>[B]ecoming louder, more vocal, in taking up more space the added notes of masculinity […] Why can’t I be a strong loud out-there feminine creature? Why can’t I be a strong loud out-there feminine creature?</blockquote> As I've begun to look at it more closely, this is precisely what frustrates me with the way in which people perceive masculine versus feminine behavior. What you are saying and what Sara seems to be implying is that taking up more space in the world, being more vocal in a louder manner is "masculine." Where did that construction come from, really, and why is that the connection toward masculine activity. I have come to believe that it is <em>not</em> femininity I am expressing when I am quiet, silent, or make myself physically small. These actions are, in my view, completely decoupled from ideas of gender. Women can be large, men can be small, and the physicality of their behavior does not correlate to their gender presentation but rather simply their current social stance.

[B]ecoming louder, more vocal, in taking up more space the added notes of masculinity […] Why can’t I be a strong loud out-there feminine creature? Why can’t I be a strong loud out-there feminine creature?

As I’ve begun to look at it more closely, this is precisely what frustrates me with the way in which people perceive masculine versus feminine behavior. What you are saying and what Sara seems to be implying is that taking up more space in the world, being more vocal in a louder manner is “masculine.” Where did that construction come from, really, and why is that the connection toward masculine activity. I have come to believe that it is not femininity I am expressing when I am quiet, silent, or make myself physically small. These actions are, in my view, completely decoupled from ideas of gender. Women can be large, men can be small, and the physicality of their behavior does not correlate to their gender presentation but rather simply their current social stance.

]]> By: Helio http://followsthesun.com/having-it-all-a-gender-post-with-pictures/comment-page-1/#comment-348 Helio Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:34:25 +0000 http://followsthesun.com/?p=323#comment-348 Sara! I most certainly have thought a bit (actually, quite a bit) about how using and positioning my body can affect where I am on scales of masculinity and femininity. During one of the times in recent memory that <a href="http://followsthesun.com/?p=289" rel="nofollow">I felt most masculine</a>, I had done nothing performative with my clothing or planned expression at all. Within the context of actual sex and play, this makes a lot of sense to me, but actually I'm not such a fan of it out in the world. It would be ok if I could guarantee that in becoming louder, more vocal, in taking up more space, the added notes of masculinity did not detract from my femininity, but as the world today stands, I know that's not the case in the eyes of most people I interact with. And that, frankly, pisses me off. Why can't I be a strong loud out-there feminine creature? Or perhaps I'm holding myself back because of my notions of the perceptions of others. Maybe I could be everything I want to be and send my signal strong and clear, if only I wasn't so sure that I could not? Either way, it's a tricky question. Thanks for bringing this up, though! Gendervariance-in-the-nude is a topic that needs more discussion. Sara!
I most certainly have thought a bit (actually, quite a bit) about how using and positioning my body can affect where I am on scales of masculinity and femininity. During one of the times in recent memory that I felt most masculine, I had done nothing performative with my clothing or planned expression at all. Within the context of actual sex and play, this makes a lot of sense to me, but actually I’m not such a fan of it out in the world. It would be ok if I could guarantee that in becoming louder, more vocal, in taking up more space, the added notes of masculinity did not detract from my femininity, but as the world today stands, I know that’s not the case in the eyes of most people I interact with. And that, frankly, pisses me off. Why can’t I be a strong loud out-there feminine creature? Or perhaps I’m holding myself back because of my notions of the perceptions of others. Maybe I could be everything I want to be and send my signal strong and clear, if only I wasn’t so sure that I could not? Either way, it’s a tricky question. Thanks for bringing this up, though! Gendervariance-in-the-nude is a topic that needs more discussion.

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